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Author Topic: Discussion: Empire  (Read 9294 times)
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« on: May 22, 2007, 03:33:42 PM »

This thread is for discussion of the Empire.

A few questions to get this started off.

What is the name of the Empire?
Who is currently in power?
Does the new Empire have the same government as the Old Empire?
How similar is the New Empire to the Old?
Naval or Army superiority or balanced between the two?

I know there are other things, but I can't think of them right now. As things become decided, I will update this first post.

 
« Last Edit: May 23, 2007, 06:38:57 PM by Wensleydale » Logged


 Markas Dalton

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« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2007, 03:54:22 PM »

So the empire is basically a much weaker, attempted reformation of an older empire.  The name would probably be whatever it originally was, possibly with the word "New" put in front of it  (New Rome, New America, whatever).  The empire was originally based off the Roman empire, so we could go with a classical name, with heavy classical influences, but I'm not sure I like that idea.

I think the empire is most likely pseudo-dictatorial, but probably only with minimal power.  That's all I have for now. smile
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« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2007, 04:09:53 PM »

The vibe I get with the Empire is that it's trying to pass off as being a continuation of the old Empire. So I imagine they'd name it after the old Empire, without adding a "New" prefix.

I'm personally a fan of names with some meaning or story attached to them, so I suggest we wait to get some more backstory for the Empire before deciding on a name.

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« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2007, 04:10:40 PM »

I vote Naval superiority, with powerful strike teams balanced by a rather weak standing army.  Think adventurers as special units, with commoner troops to back them up.

EDIT: Then again, a naval-based empire would be either port-heavy or made of an island conglomeration, IMO. So...  I dunno, just a thought.
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« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2007, 04:48:59 PM »

Túrin


I'm personally a fan of names with some meaning or story attached to them, so I suggest we wait to get some more backstory for the Empire before deciding on a name.


Eh, I was in the sun all day, and have to do it again. My head hurts and I couldn't think of stuff to fill up a begining post. smile The name isn't important.
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« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2007, 04:51:49 PM »

Rose Of Montague


I vote Naval superiority, with powerful strike teams balanced by a rather weak standing army.  Think adventurers as special units, with commoner troops to back them up.

EDIT: Then again, a naval-based empire would be either port-heavy or made of an island conglomeration, IMO. So...  I dunno, just a thought.


They control much coastal areas and islands. If they are naval, many of their cities could be on the coasts with farmlands to the interior. Just a thought from a sun fried fish god.
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« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2007, 06:41:49 PM »

I updated the first post with the map of the current Empite holdings. Maybe that will spark some conversation
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« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2007, 02:21:16 AM »

Looking at that map, I see the empire being arranged as such:

It is divided up into a series of smaller sections (known as domains for now). Each section is ruled by a lord and contains one 'major' city, with the most important section, located on the smaller bay area in the southwest portion of the continent containing both the capital city and the seat of the Emperor. Each lord owes direct fealty to the Emperor, a fealty which, after the rebellions that destroyed the first empire, is enforced by mystical bonds. Each lord is responsible for three things:

1) Seeing that commoners in their domain are fed, clothed, and sheltered, as well as taxed and are working to the fullest of their ability to serve the Emperor
2) Maintaining the ability to raise a commoner army as needed. For coastal domains, this would instead be the ability to raise a commoner crew for each ship they control.
3) Maintaining a set of elite troops. If the domain is a coastal one, this consists of building ships called Waverunners, ultrafast and light ships that are part of the Empires dominion over its areas, and training the captains to pilot them, while landlocked domains are responsible for training the elite warriors of the empire, which would have a cool name and would combine both swordplay and magic into a deadly combination that makes them devastating on the battlefield.  

While the Emperor taxes the domains, each Lord has the right to request funding from the Emperor to carry out one of their second two duties if unusual hardship prevents them from being able to fulfill all three duties (Duty 1 is the most important of the three. After all, a happy populace won't rebel, which makes 2 and 3 less important, at least internally speaking.)

I'm not sure if this is a coherent idea or anything...it just popped into my head when I saw the map. If it doesn't make sense, I'll clarify tomorrow. As of now, I haven't actually slept in two days, so I'm going to bed. smile
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« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2007, 07:22:17 AM »

Stop sleeping more often. I like it.

#3 is especially good. It gives the Empire a balance between naval and land forces. They win because of sheer numbers (commoners), with some support from elite troops.

Are they like Rome? Do they give instant citizanship to those they conquer? Or does the Empire make the conquered people prove their loyalty?
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« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2007, 07:53:17 AM »

Instant Citizenship = a no, I think. Give benefits to citizens, have them be the middle class in a way, with nice houses etc, and have the lower classes - the 'conquered' - be farmers, WANTING to become citizens. It provides a reason for the lower classes to be loyal and work hard.

As to the lords, I think they should be called governors, but I like the Roman Empire too much anyway. tongue
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« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2007, 07:56:26 AM »

Okay, I think #3 is a good start, but I disagree with a fundamental aspect of it.  I don't think that this empire should have the fastest ships; I think they should have the strongest ships.  My thoughts are, let's have either another race, or at least another nation, be the ones that are known for the fastest ships.  The reason I'm thinking this is, I picture some race or nation being highly magically adept, and they use captured air elementals, or harness the power of the wind to make their ships travel extremely fast.  For the empire, I would like to see their naval superiority based almost entirely on the fact that they have so many resources, that they simply outnumber the rest of the nations.  Their fleets outnumber other fleets 2, 3, or 4 - to - 1.  Plus, maybe t hey possibly use steam, or maybe they at least use gunpowder, thus having superior fighting power with ranged cannons, etc.  Anyway, just my thoughts.  I like everything Xathan said except for that one part of #3.
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« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2007, 08:17:56 AM »

To start off, I like your idea about another race/nation having fastest ships.


But about the Empire.
Do they really have the strongest ships now? Did the old Empire have the strongest ships in the world? If they did, wouldn't some of the ships be left behind when the Empire crumbled? This would mean that some of the other seafaring nations would have access to them and could possibly learn how to build their own.
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« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2007, 10:27:05 AM »

I'd say the old empire had the strongest ships in the world (I agree, strongest is better than fastest) and so other races have acess to those, but the problem is, the new empire actually improved on the old empires design in a significant way that would be difficult, if not impossible, to reproduce without significant infastructure. (I'm thinking something like limited iron plating, magically reinforced hulls, weapons magically enhanced for both range and damange, the ability to submerge...something fantastic, in other words) I also like Ishy's point, that they should have overwhelming numbers - perhaps it will be like their army, with a few of the elite ships and then a huge fleet of smaller, more average ships to compliment them?

As for citizenship, I think it's not instant, but instead scaling. As long as the people are good and behave, they get X benifits at year 5, X benifits at year 10, and complete citizenship at year 15, (timescale is totally arbitrary). However, any children born after conquest or up to two years before are immediately citizen, (in otherwords, anyone who would be too young to remember the pre-conqured area) as is anyone who takes a government, naval, or military job.

 a no, I think. Give benefits to citizens, have them be the middle class in a way, with nice houses etc, and have the lower classes - the 'conquered' - be farmers, WANTING to become citizens. It provides a reason for the lower classes to be loyal and work hard.[/quote

My thoughts are, let's have either another race, or at least another nation, be the ones that are known for the fastest ships. The reason I'm thinking this is, I picture some race or nation being highly magically adept, and they use captured air elementals, or harness the power of the wind to make their ships travel extremely fast.


I know we're saving talk on other cultures for another thread, but I just want to point out the sheer amount of awesome contained in this idea. smile
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« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2007, 11:03:59 AM »

Xathan, Actually Back This Time


I'd say the old empire had the strongest ships in the world (I agree, strongest is better than fastest) and so other races have acess to those, but the problem is, the new empire actually improved on the old empires design in a significant way that would be difficult, if not impossible, to reproduce without significant infastructure. (I'm thinking something like limited iron plating, magically reinforced hulls, weapons magically enhanced for both range and damange, the ability to submerge...something fantastic, in other words) I also like Ishy's point, that they should have overwhelming numbers - perhaps it will be like their army, with a few of the elite ships and then a huge fleet of smaller, more average ships to compliment them?


I like these ideas. I'm not too fond of giving the Empire full ironclads, though. If they had slightly modified 16th century ships, while the rest of the world had 14th maybe 15th century ships.

I like the idea of submersibles. How are they powered though? I'm not too fond of steam, but if that is the way everyone else goes. Bound Elementals, might be stealing too heavily from Eberron. Man powered?


Xathan, Actually Back This Time


 a no, I think. Give benefits to citizens, have them be the middle class in a way, with nice houses etc, and have the lower classes - the 'conquered' - be farmers, WANTING to become citizens. It provides a reason for the lower classes to be loyal and work hard.[/quote



Exactly. I like your scaling citizenship rather than instant.

Xathan, Actually Back This Time


As for citizenship, I think it's not instant, but instead scaling. As long as the people are good and behave, they get X benifits at year 5, X benifits at year 10, and complete citizenship at year 15, (timescale is totally arbitrary). However, any children born after conquest or up to two years before are immediately citizen, (in otherwords, anyone who would be too young to remember the pre-conqured area) as is anyone who takes a government, naval, or military job.


Do the conquered people get a new lord? Do they keep someone from their old government as lord of the domain?

What do they have to give up? I imagine that they would have to stop worshiping whatever totem or idea they are worshiping, but what else do they have to give up? The Romans (iirc) allowed the conquered people to retain their culture and laws as long as they didn't conflict with Roman laws. Which made assimilation smoother.

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« Reply #14 on: May 29, 2007, 11:23:41 AM »

Poseidon



I like these ideas. I'm not too fond of giving the Empire full ironclads, though. If they had slightly modified 16th century ships, while the rest of the world had 14th maybe 15th century ships.

I like the idea of submersibles. How are they powered though? I'm not too fond of steam, but if that is the way everyone else goes. Bound Elementals, might be stealing too heavily from Eberron. Man powered?
Exactly. I like your scaling citizenship rather than instant[/quote]
Do the conquered people get a new lord? Do they keep someone from their old government as lord of the domain?

What do they have to give up? I imagine that they would have to stop worshiping whatever totem or idea they are worshiping, but what else do they have to give up? The Romans (iirc) allowed the conquered people to retain their culture and laws as long as they didn't conflict with Roman laws. Which made assimilation smoother.[/quote]

They definately would get a new, imperial Lord, but they would have someone from the old government, preferably the highest ranking member, as a sort of...not advisor, but that's the basic idea. The point would be to have the new Lord imperial, but the old ruler is around, alive, comfortable, and supports the empire, so he cannot become either a figure for rebellion or a martyr to rally around. He would have a station of sorts that would seem impressive but wouldn't grant any actual power, so his people would not feel their lord is being mistreated, but he cannot be a threat.

I actually don't see them being forced to give up their totems, as long as they also acknowledge imperial religion and pay homage to it. That was the Roman model, and it woked very well with the only problems being the Jeudo-Christian faiths. And, like you said, assimilation was made smoother by allowing people to retain old customs and laws as long as they didnt' conflict with roman laws, which makes the most sense to me.
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