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Author Topic: Horse20  (Read 677 times)
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« on: June 16, 2012, 02:32:19 PM »
Horse20

A Freakin' Awesome d20-based Roleplaying System


Core Concepts (more to be added?):

-Str + Dex bonus to attack/damage

-FATE-like stats (e.g. +2 Str instead of 15 Str; -1 Wis instead of 8 Wis); Vancian casting replaced by mana-based system similar to the one found on the d20 3.5 SRD

-Improved combat functionality and options for all character builds. Things like Power Attack become regular combat options instead of things you have to take a feat for, and you can improve its function by taking Aptitudes (see below) that provide bonuses/improved use of such abilities. Similarly, the feat Leadership instead becomes something one can just do that improves based on ability scores and skill ranks.

-A 10-level system with a common advancement scheme for everyone. A level provides HP, mana (small amounts even if no casting ability), flat attack bonus and damage bonus per level, 2-3 defense bonuses (willpower, endurance, evasion), and skill ranks to spend, in addition to features called Talents at each level that function much like scaling feats and feat/class feature progressions (think things like a combination of paladin's mercies and smite/aura features).

-Level scheme features feat-like abilities called Aptitudes gained at XP "milestones" between levels. Likely to be three milestones at 25%, 50% and 75% XP achievement for next level. Aptitudes will primarily be small, passive effects such a HP, mana, attack and defense bonuses, and possibly things like extra use of existing abilities per day or whatnot

-Classes replaced with "Lineages", similar to minor templates. Lineages such as "warrior" might provide improved attack/defense values plus the ability to choose a fighting style, or rage as a class feature. A "mage" lineage might provide a mana regeneration bonus (recover 50% spent mana after encounter instead of say 40% for normal casters) plus ability to choose a school specialty and additional spells, or maybe get a "kit" that provides some alchemy bonuses and a familiar.

-Spell lists drastically stripped down either by outright removing some spells or by merging others. Metamagic effects should be easier to add and simply cost slightly more mana to use. Spell list should be comparable to a simplified, collective spell list of all core classes from spell levels 0-3, with dashes of higher-level spells as rarer and much more costly abilities. The ability to learn spells by viewing them or by learning their words via a spellbook/scroll should still exist, but I am not sure I will make a distinction between learned and natural casting (or will leave it up to the player who creates the character and feature related options in Lineages).

-Removal of the Cleric as a "core" character concept (but no reason a similar style character could not be built and/or played), to be replaced by colored mages (at least white mages and black mages, possibly more as I am vulernable to MtG influence). Concepts such as the Druid, Wizard, Warlock and Oracle (Pathfinder SRD) seem more appropriate at least for Haveneast .

-Monsters should hopefully function on the exact same level and creation style as characters, with additional templates to apply, including sizes

-Instead of alignment system, there is a Humanity scale; unsure if this will be a scale where humanity is found in the middle or at one end, but considering the latter. Parallels in feats and class features to the 3.5/PF alignment-based effects. Lower humanity means greater vulnerability to "holy" effects (and humanity is lost through use of some spells or committing of various acts to be detailed later)



---

More to this list (and the features themselves) as I retrieve them from the extensive chat logs. laugh

I'm designing this d20 variant mainly to capture the feel of the E6 variant for D&D but with more fixes for fundamental issues featured in the system. Above all I am attempting to make the system more fun to play for any build, even if there are a few balance issues that may arise.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2012, 08:04:32 PM by Horse » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2012, 02:49:46 PM »
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« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2012, 02:49:53 PM »
Reserve 1. Ok to post from here.
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Xathan
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« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2012, 03:13:17 PM »
Given my previous work with X20 and help with Xev20, I'd be remiss if I didn't offer my assistance on another d20 variant, and looking forward to seeing what more comes. The core concepts you've mentioned so far seem solid and like they would be improvements. Since this is mostly a list of vague ideas it's hard for me to come up with actual feedback yet, but I'm curious by what you mean by STR and DEX applying to attack/damage = how does that differ from core d20? Also, have you looked at the DnD Next playtest rules yet? There's some things in there (the way they handle advantage and disadvantage, for example), that might provide inspirational.

Looking forward to what comes next! Will follow this thread with interest. smile
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Sparkletwist

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« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2012, 03:20:42 PM »

Xathan

Given my previous work with X20 and help with Xev20, I'd be remiss if I didn't offer my assistance on another d20 variant, and looking forward to seeing what more comes. The core concepts you've mentioned so far seem solid and like they would be improvements. Since this is mostly a list of vague ideas it's hard for me to come up with actual feedback yet, but I'm curious by what you mean by STR and DEX applying to attack/damage = how does that differ from core d20? Also, have you looked at the DnD Next playtest rules yet? There's some things in there (the way they handle advantage and disadvantage, for example), that might provide inspirational.

Looking forward to what comes next! Will follow this thread with interest. smile

Thanks for the input laugh. What I mean by Str + Dex applying to attack/damage is that they'd both be applied to any weapon you're proficient with (and perhaps you could add only one or the other to a weapon you weren't proficient with, I haven't thought too much about that though), so if you had a +2 Str and +3 Dex you'd get +5 attack and damage. The defenses of characters and creatures will be a bit higher to keep it from getting too out of control, but having to take a feat to use one bonus over the other   (Weapon Finesse) seemed a bit silly for weapons you were already assumed to be proficient with. This is one of the less concrete changes I'd be making out of those currently listed, and it might alternatively end up so that you can choose freely to apply either Str or Dex on top of BAB and BDB (base damage bonus) with a weapon you're proficient with (excepting crossbows, which might have different rules).

I haven't looked at the D&D Next rules yet, but I'll definitely check them out.
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« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2012, 03:21:24 PM »
OK, I still like a lot of this.  
Somewhat concerned about the stripped spell list.
And fate-like stats because you are going to do point-buy? (only reason to use representative numbers like 3-18 is due to rolling for them or descriptive purpose)
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« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2012, 03:30:37 PM »

Horse

Thanks for the input laugh. What I mean by Str + Dex applying to attack/damage is that they'd both be applied to any weapon you're proficient with (and perhaps you could add only one or the other to a weapon you weren't proficient with, I haven't thought too much about that though), so if you had a +2 Str and +3 Dex you'd get +5 attack and damage. The defenses of characters and creatures will be a bit higher to keep it from getting too out of control, but having to take a feat to use one bonus over the other   (Weapon Finesse) seemed a bit silly for weapons you were already assumed to be proficient with.
That's...actually really interesting, something I can't believe I've never thought of, and makes a stupid amount of sense! It's fitting that if you are skilled enough to wield a weapon your might as well as agility would be a factor in how well you'd hit with it, not one with the other not mattering in the slightest. You'll also have to boost HP to make up for the damage increase, and I do see a slight flaw in that pretty much every melee character will be popping strength and dexterity boosting potions/spells like they're MLB players with a bottle of steroids and HGH, but if you build the system with that in mind then it shouldn't be too big a problem.

Quote

This is one of the less concrete changes I'd be making out of those currently listed, and it might alternatively end up so that you can choose freely to apply either Str or Dex on top of BAB and BDB (base damage bonus) with a weapon you're proficient with (excepting crossbows, which might have different rules).

This option might be better, just because it'll keep damage in more sane ranges, but if you want to build the system to accommodate insane damage, then go for it. It does have the plus of making it so a "Level 1 Wizard" (for lack of better terms given your overall of the class system) can't put enough into str and dex where he can still be a proficient caster while having a BDB higher than the minimum damage of the dagger he wields. tongue

Still loving the basic ideas behind this. I'll admit I could be with Vreeg on the "stripped spell list" - how far are you planning on going with that? What are you going to axe?
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Sparkletwist

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« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2012, 03:31:50 PM »

LordVreeg

OK, I still like a lot of this.  
Somewhat concerned about the stripped spell list.
And fate-like stats because you are going to do point-buy? (only reason to use representative numbers like 3-18 is due to rolling for them or descriptive purpose)

laugh Thanks. A lot of what I would do in stripping down the list would be simplifying spells that do elemental damage (making it possible to pick Ice Arrow, Lightning Arrow or Acid Arrow instead of Flame Arrow, for example) or simplifying the selection of spells that target alignments (I'm toying with a Humanity scale as replacement for standard D&D alignments) and making spell selections more universal, with learning spells being more about the character concept rather than which lineage you chose.

I think the FATE-style stats will be good for it, yeah. Point buy seems like a pretty reasonable stat generation method. It would be cool to simplify even the types of die that get used in the system, and I think it'd help in that regard, too. smile
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« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2012, 03:33:33 PM »
As I've mentioned before, I'm intrigued. laugh

One suggestion with respect to spells that I may have made before is that, generally speaking, you get rid of spell levels. Pumping more mana into spells makes them more powerful. This will allow you to cut down the spell lists considerably just in itself, because you can get rid of a lot of "improved/greater/mass" etc. versions of spells that are just a better version of a lower-mana spell. Stuff like summon monster can work like that, too. I'd also get rid of material components except ones that are of significant cost and actually contribute something to the system. Really, who wants to keep track of whether or not you've got bat guano on hand? (Who actually even does keep track?)

Horse

I haven't looked at the D&D Next rules yet, but I'll definitely check them out.
The D&D Next rules may serve as a better illustration of what not to do.  grin
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« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2012, 03:39:40 PM »

sparkletwist

One suggestion with respect to spells that I may have made before is that, generally speaking, you get rid of spell levels. Pumping more mana into spells makes them more powerful. This will allow you to cut down the spell lists considerably just in itself, because you can get rid of a lot of "improved/greater/mass" etc. versions of spells that are just a better version of a lower-mana spell. Stuff like summon monster can work like that, too. I'd also get rid of material components except ones that are of significant cost and actually contribute something to the system. Really, who wants to keep track of whether or not you've got bat guano on hand? (Who actually even does keep track?)

I've known one DM who made people keep track because it was in the rules, and it was pants on head retarded - it just forced every caster to take Eschew Materials at first level to avoid mindless bookkeeping. And I think getting rid of spell levels is good, or cutting it down significantly - some spells, even in their most basic form, are still too powerful for lower level characters to have access to. (Even if your fireball only does 1d6 damage, at level 1 a 30ft sphere of 1d6 damage can be devastating). However, I fully agree that the improved/greater/lesser/mass/minor/major/adjective-meaning-above-or-below spells can be cut out easily via increasing mana costs - the psionics rules are are good example of a way to make it work.  

sparkletwist

Horse

I haven't looked at the D&D Next rules yet, but I'll definitely check them out.
The D&D Next rules may serve as a better illustration of what not to do.  grin
As with any new rules system, your mileage may vary - at the very least, DnD Next seems to be a vast improvement over 4e.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2012, 03:42:02 PM by sparkletwist » Logged
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« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2012, 03:42:52 PM »
I fixed your broken quote tags. grin

Xathan

DnD Next seems to be a vast improvement over 4e.
I am not going to derail Horse's system thread with the rant that this statement will provoke. tongue
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« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2012, 07:06:43 PM »
Sparkle: my thanks, on both counts. tongue

Horse: One other thing from looking over this - I'm curious about your leveling system. As I understand it, you'll be getting HP, BAB, skills, ETC at "Milestones" between levels, and then get your "Class features" from minor templates? The idea sort of makes sense to me...but not entirely, so I'm curious if you could elaborate further on that. smile
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Sparkletwist

It's llitul and the brain, llitul and the brain, one is a genius and the other's insane
Proud Receiver of a Golden Dorito

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« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2012, 07:19:14 PM »

Xathan

Sparkle: my thanks, on both counts. tongue

Horse: One other thing from looking over this - I'm curious about your leveling system. As I understand it, you'll be getting HP, BAB, skills, ETC at "Milestones" between levels, and then get your "Class features" from minor templates? The idea sort of makes sense to me...but not entirely, so I'm curious if you could elaborate further on that. smile

There is a 10-level system similar to any given d20 class where at each level you gain a flat HP, BAB, BDB, save bonus, skill ranks and access to a new Talent. In between levels there are "Milestones" where you get an Affinity (like feats). For example, if attaining 2nd level required 1000 XP, there'd be a Milestone (based on my choice to do three milestones between each pair of levels) at 250 XP, 500 XP, and 750 XP each. They'd represent small things you learn while on an adventure, whether it's when you make mistakes or acquire new knowledge. There would be no BAB/BDB, HP, mana, or anything like that at the Milestones.

Hope that clears it up. laugh

EDIT: in a way, having these Milestones in between the levels also supports my preference of seeing a level up every 3-4 sessions. Whether or not this is actually feasible with this system we'll have to see.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2012, 07:21:49 PM by Horse » Logged

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« Reply #13 on: July 02, 2012, 03:50:28 PM »
Haven't got a whole lot done recently on this, but I've at least finalized the lineages that will be in the system: Warrior, Hunter, Adventurer, Druid, Wizard, Warlock. While I don't want this to go the way of 4e combat roles ("leader", "striker", etc.), I did want to emphasize that there are certain themes to these and that each class is "paired" with another in a sense:

Warrior & Warlock
-Aggressive lineages with powers and abilities that allow high damage/effects output, often with the ability to "burn out" to push effects further at the cost of physical health

Adventurer & Wizard
-Capable lineages that feature a more diverse array of abilities or bonuses to things such as casting of "utility" spells (which would include fly, charm person, invisibility, polymorph, scrying, etc.)

Hunter & Druid
-Lineages that provide a mix of aggressive and utility abilities, themed somewhat around nature (Hunter features favored terrain as a unique ability)
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« Reply #14 on: July 02, 2012, 10:49:20 PM »
I am not sure if "Adventurer" is really a good name for a lineage. I mean, isn't it kind of what everyone is?
This is just a nitpick, though. I do like the idea of a certain division of roles, with a more "martially inclined" and more "magically inclined" version of each one.

Since I often like playing gish type characters, I would think I could get that by playing a combat-oriented lineage with a caster class, right? Or would that be better served by a magic-oriented linage with a fighting class?
(Actually, what the difference between these two actually is might be something good to hammer out)
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